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	Comments on: &#8230;on Learning Objectives	</title>
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		<title>
		By: James Michie		</title>
		<link>https://jamesmichie.com/blog/2012/02/on-learning-objectives/#comment-582</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James Michie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Apr 2012 20:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jamesmichie.com/blog/?p=18766#comment-582</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://jamesmichie.com/blog/2012/02/on-learning-objectives/#comment-580&quot;&gt;Stuart&lt;/a&gt;.

Hi Stuart, thanks for sharing your post with me. 

I agree that we shouldn&#039;t use LOs in a didactic way, nor should we be aiming to please Ofsted. However, I don&#039;t believe that this is either/or. I think that LOs are valuable for both learner and teacher. Where and when they are shared however is a different matter. As I indicated in my post, I believe it is about variety - creating a range of scenarios that empower learners to take ownership of their learning. 

Moreover, having a defined LO, does not in my view give away the ending or set a firm outcome. It is merely a suggestion. Limits can only come from the teacher themselves. The teacher who believes that their lesson plan must be stuck to rigidly, who believes that there is only one outcome - they are the limitation themselves. Many excellent teachers set out with a clearly defined LO but they are not rigid, they have the skills and ability to adapt, to weave learning, to allow organics to happen in the classroom, allowing learner to lead and thrive. 

Besides, it&#039;s useful to have something to aim at, doesn&#039;t it?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://jamesmichie.com/blog/2012/02/on-learning-objectives/#comment-580">Stuart</a>.</p>
<p>Hi Stuart, thanks for sharing your post with me. </p>
<p>I agree that we shouldn&#8217;t use LOs in a didactic way, nor should we be aiming to please Ofsted. However, I don&#8217;t believe that this is either/or. I think that LOs are valuable for both learner and teacher. Where and when they are shared however is a different matter. As I indicated in my post, I believe it is about variety &#8211; creating a range of scenarios that empower learners to take ownership of their learning. </p>
<p>Moreover, having a defined LO, does not in my view give away the ending or set a firm outcome. It is merely a suggestion. Limits can only come from the teacher themselves. The teacher who believes that their lesson plan must be stuck to rigidly, who believes that there is only one outcome &#8211; they are the limitation themselves. Many excellent teachers set out with a clearly defined LO but they are not rigid, they have the skills and ability to adapt, to weave learning, to allow organics to happen in the classroom, allowing learner to lead and thrive. </p>
<p>Besides, it&#8217;s useful to have something to aim at, doesn&#8217;t it?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Stuart		</title>
		<link>https://jamesmichie.com/blog/2012/02/on-learning-objectives/#comment-580</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Stuart]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Apr 2012 21:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jamesmichie.com/blog/?p=18766#comment-580</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[My own findings and beliefs on this topic...

http://www.sjeducation.co.uk/2012/04/learning-objectives-or-not.html]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My own findings and beliefs on this topic&#8230;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.sjeducation.co.uk/2012/04/learning-objectives-or-not.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.sjeducation.co.uk/2012/04/learning-objectives-or-not.html</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: James Michie		</title>
		<link>https://jamesmichie.com/blog/2012/02/on-learning-objectives/#comment-545</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James Michie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2012 18:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jamesmichie.com/blog/?p=18766#comment-545</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thanks for commenting Tom.

I agree, there is a place for routine in learning and the use of LOs. As I said in response to Kevin above, if a teacher finds that sharing them in a particular way, at a particular point works for them in creating an effective learning ethos in their classroom, then this should be encouraged. But as you imply, there is more than one way to share them. And that&#039;s the point. This is not about not sharing learning objectives. It is about not playing lip-service to sharing them simply to tick a box. LOs have purpose, they are part of a wider AfL strategy NOT just a bullet on a list of &#039;successful lesson criteria&#039;.

I like the way that you have approached success criteria. In my view, SC are the most important aspect of sharing LOs. If used correctly they provide a framework for effective formative assessment - particularly when trying to develop meaningful peer/self assessment with your students. 

I am also, particularly, impressed with your commitment to AfL by removing levels at KS3. I think this is something we should be doing here at CCC but I&#039;m not sure how it would go over. As a number of us have completed MA modules in AfL, I do think we have the expertise to affect such a change however, I think there would be significant resistance from SLT.

I would be more than happy for you to come in and visit. Lots of exciting work happening in the Media department at the moment. Particularly with production work, independent learning strategies and the teaching of &#039;Postmodern Media&#039; at A2 level. Check out the blog to see what we have been doing. Student production blogs are in the sidebar on the right. 

Media @ CCC: http://www.chalfontmediablog.blogspot.com/

Regards,
James.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for commenting Tom.</p>
<p>I agree, there is a place for routine in learning and the use of LOs. As I said in response to Kevin above, if a teacher finds that sharing them in a particular way, at a particular point works for them in creating an effective learning ethos in their classroom, then this should be encouraged. But as you imply, there is more than one way to share them. And that&#8217;s the point. This is not about not sharing learning objectives. It is about not playing lip-service to sharing them simply to tick a box. LOs have purpose, they are part of a wider AfL strategy NOT just a bullet on a list of &#8216;successful lesson criteria&#8217;.</p>
<p>I like the way that you have approached success criteria. In my view, SC are the most important aspect of sharing LOs. If used correctly they provide a framework for effective formative assessment &#8211; particularly when trying to develop meaningful peer/self assessment with your students. </p>
<p>I am also, particularly, impressed with your commitment to AfL by removing levels at KS3. I think this is something we should be doing here at CCC but I&#8217;m not sure how it would go over. As a number of us have completed MA modules in AfL, I do think we have the expertise to affect such a change however, I think there would be significant resistance from SLT.</p>
<p>I would be more than happy for you to come in and visit. Lots of exciting work happening in the Media department at the moment. Particularly with production work, independent learning strategies and the teaching of &#8216;Postmodern Media&#8217; at A2 level. Check out the blog to see what we have been doing. Student production blogs are in the sidebar on the right. </p>
<p>Media @ CCC: http://www.chalfontmediablog.blogspot.com/</p>
<p>Regards,<br />
James.</p>
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		<title>
		By: James Michie		</title>
		<link>https://jamesmichie.com/blog/2012/02/on-learning-objectives/#comment-544</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James Michie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2012 18:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jamesmichie.com/blog/?p=18766#comment-544</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://jamesmichie.com/blog/2012/02/on-learning-objectives/#comment-540&quot;&gt;Kevin McLaughlin&lt;/a&gt;.

It is the indoctrination that concerns me too. The underlying discourse of &quot;this is how we do it because that is what Ofsted want to see&quot; is inherently wrong. Having been through a HMI visit and two Ofsted inspections I can categorically state that this is not what Ofsted want to see. A lesson can be outstanding with the LOs being written on the board, in the same way that a lesson can be outstanding without five mini-plenaries. Ofsted want to see learning happening in the classroom. They want to see children progressing in their learning. Following a strict lesson structure (LOs included) is not a guarantee to even a satisfactory lesson, let alone an outstanding one. 

We need to experiment with, reflect on, and evaluate a variety of strategies and approaches to engaging students in a discourse about their learning. Find what works and build on it. If that includes sharing LOs on the board at the start of your lessons then that is fantastic, but we must not restrict their lessons to uninspired conformity. Our students, simply, will not thank us for it.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://jamesmichie.com/blog/2012/02/on-learning-objectives/#comment-540">Kevin McLaughlin</a>.</p>
<p>It is the indoctrination that concerns me too. The underlying discourse of &#8220;this is how we do it because that is what Ofsted want to see&#8221; is inherently wrong. Having been through a HMI visit and two Ofsted inspections I can categorically state that this is not what Ofsted want to see. A lesson can be outstanding with the LOs being written on the board, in the same way that a lesson can be outstanding without five mini-plenaries. Ofsted want to see learning happening in the classroom. They want to see children progressing in their learning. Following a strict lesson structure (LOs included) is not a guarantee to even a satisfactory lesson, let alone an outstanding one. </p>
<p>We need to experiment with, reflect on, and evaluate a variety of strategies and approaches to engaging students in a discourse about their learning. Find what works and build on it. If that includes sharing LOs on the board at the start of your lessons then that is fantastic, but we must not restrict their lessons to uninspired conformity. Our students, simply, will not thank us for it.</p>
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		<title>
		By: James Michie		</title>
		<link>https://jamesmichie.com/blog/2012/02/on-learning-objectives/#comment-542</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James Michie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Feb 2012 10:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jamesmichie.com/blog/?p=18766#comment-542</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://jamesmichie.com/blog/2012/02/on-learning-objectives/#comment-539&quot;&gt;Gareth Harris&lt;/a&gt;.

You&#039;re welcome Gareth, I hope that you are successful.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://jamesmichie.com/blog/2012/02/on-learning-objectives/#comment-539">Gareth Harris</a>.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re welcome Gareth, I hope that you are successful.</p>
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		<title>
		By: James Michie		</title>
		<link>https://jamesmichie.com/blog/2012/02/on-learning-objectives/#comment-541</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James Michie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Feb 2012 10:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jamesmichie.com/blog/?p=18766#comment-541</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://jamesmichie.com/blog/2012/02/on-learning-objectives/#comment-537&quot;&gt;PatParslow&lt;/a&gt;.

In fact I think the &#039;reductionist&#039; approach you talk of Pat is counterintuitive. In teaching Media Studies we often analyse a text on both the macro (representational) and micro (technical) level. The macro analysis always comes first as it centres around perception. Whereas, the micro analysis is useful in underpinning conclusions drawn at the macro level but certainly not as useful when engaged with inside a microcosm. You may be able to discuss the cinematography in terms and structure but to form meaningful analysis it needs to be considered with the wider-macro-context.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://jamesmichie.com/blog/2012/02/on-learning-objectives/#comment-537">PatParslow</a>.</p>
<p>In fact I think the &#8216;reductionist&#8217; approach you talk of Pat is counterintuitive. In teaching Media Studies we often analyse a text on both the macro (representational) and micro (technical) level. The macro analysis always comes first as it centres around perception. Whereas, the micro analysis is useful in underpinning conclusions drawn at the macro level but certainly not as useful when engaged with inside a microcosm. You may be able to discuss the cinematography in terms and structure but to form meaningful analysis it needs to be considered with the wider-macro-context.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tom Boulter		</title>
		<link>https://jamesmichie.com/blog/2012/02/on-learning-objectives/#comment-579</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Boulter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Feb 2012 09:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jamesmichie.com/blog/?p=18766#comment-579</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Really interesting and useful discussion here. I’ve certainly found the sharpening of my use of Learning Intentions (or whatever you want to call them) to be a very powerful influence on my teaching, particularly when closely tied to success criteria and feedback. A couple of thoughts of my own:
-          There’s a tendency  to see the routine use of LIs as uncreative, mechanical, lacking in creativity, and I think most teachers would agree that there’s no need for all to use them in the same way, or for LIs to be communicated in a particular form in every lesson. However, it’s worth noting that where LIs are routinely not made explicit, a likely outcome is that students from environments which are more culturally predisposed to success in our current education system will continue to do well and make reasonable progress, whilst students who are not, will suffer. Essentially, I think that it’s worth being more routine and explicit with learning intentions than we think we might need to be; it’s so easy  to assume that the students understand what’s being learnt, when in reality it’s much easier for some groups of students to intuitively grasp what’s going on than it is for others – there’s an important issue of social justice at play here.
-          Very interested in the ways that people are using success criteria, and we put a lot of time into this at my last school. The driver for us, funnily enough, was the introduction of APP in English. This provided such a crystal clear model of everything that we would not want our assessment system to be that it proved useful in stimulating our thinking  – if we didn’t want to do APP, how were we going to work with assessment to get to a much purer form of AFL in English? We ended up ‘crunching’ APP – getting the 8 AFs for writing down to 4 (on the basis that, for example, sentence structure and punctuation are so inter-related that they really don’t need to be addressed and assessed separately), and crunching vertically also, turning the 8 levels in the descriptors into just two. The language we used, whenever we wanted to share criteria with students, was to describe the qualities of ‘Skilled’ work, meaning getting the basics right, and focusing on accuracy, clarity, relevance to task etc - I suppose these would be our ‘process’ success criteria. On top of this though, was the ‘exploring excellence’ criteria, which attempted to describe some of the qualities which students might aim for in order to explore (rather than ‘achieve’) excellence – things like ‘increasing sophistication / precision / detail / originality etc). These were qualitative success criteria and a powerful tool – by providing criteria which could only be explored rather than achieved, it resulted in an open-ended, exploratory experience, characterised by high levels of student autonomy, choice and self-reflection. It also recognises the ‘messiness’ of learning which you’ve mentioned a couple of times and which I agree with, particularly in English. 
So, given that this comment is in danger of turning into a dissertation I’ll stop, but if you are interested in the approach to innovation with LIs / SC we took, there are examples of this in action on YT, eg 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsbFRQDpmgk&#038;feature=BFa&#038;list=PL07B39B937204F782&#038;lf=plpp_video
or there’s the Progress Records for the kids and vids of me talking it through for parents here: http://www.cheney.oxon.sch.uk/page/?title=English&#038;pid=24
Alongside this, we took the decision, post-SATS, NOT to use Levels in English classrooms in KS3 – we did record and report to parents 3 times per year, and if kids wanted to know we’d tell them, but apart from that, levels were never referred to. This made me a bit nervous as HOD when OFSTED did come in, but they were full of praise and assessment in English was picked out as a key strength – having said that I think we were lucky to get a reasonably enlightened inspector.
Ps – James I’ve just done some vids on good old PEE+ which you may find useful – available here: http://www.youtube.com/user/CherwellOnline?ob=0#p/c/C30080DA80562B94/0/N_gYnKh4fFs
Would still love to come down and have a proper look at your Media stuff – maybe a visit in the summer?
Cheers
Tom
 ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really interesting and useful discussion here. I’ve certainly found the sharpening of my use of Learning Intentions (or whatever you want to call them) to be a very powerful influence on my teaching, particularly when closely tied to success criteria and feedback. A couple of thoughts of my own:<br />
&#8211;          There’s a tendency  to see the routine use of LIs as uncreative, mechanical, lacking in creativity, and I think most teachers would agree that there’s no need for all to use them in the same way, or for LIs to be communicated in a particular form in every lesson. However, it’s worth noting that where LIs are routinely not made explicit, a likely outcome is that students from environments which are more culturally predisposed to success in our current education system will continue to do well and make reasonable progress, whilst students who are not, will suffer. Essentially, I think that it’s worth being more routine and explicit with learning intentions than we think we might need to be; it’s so easy  to assume that the students understand what’s being learnt, when in reality it’s much easier for some groups of students to intuitively grasp what’s going on than it is for others – there’s an important issue of social justice at play here.<br />
&#8211;          Very interested in the ways that people are using success criteria, and we put a lot of time into this at my last school. The driver for us, funnily enough, was the introduction of APP in English. This provided such a crystal clear model of everything that we would not want our assessment system to be that it proved useful in stimulating our thinking  – if we didn’t want to do APP, how were we going to work with assessment to get to a much purer form of AFL in English? We ended up ‘crunching’ APP – getting the 8 AFs for writing down to 4 (on the basis that, for example, sentence structure and punctuation are so inter-related that they really don’t need to be addressed and assessed separately), and crunching vertically also, turning the 8 levels in the descriptors into just two. The language we used, whenever we wanted to share criteria with students, was to describe the qualities of ‘Skilled’ work, meaning getting the basics right, and focusing on accuracy, clarity, relevance to task etc &#8211; I suppose these would be our ‘process’ success criteria. On top of this though, was the ‘exploring excellence’ criteria, which attempted to describe some of the qualities which students might aim for in order to explore (rather than ‘achieve’) excellence – things like ‘increasing sophistication / precision / detail / originality etc). These were qualitative success criteria and a powerful tool – by providing criteria which could only be explored rather than achieved, it resulted in an open-ended, exploratory experience, characterised by high levels of student autonomy, choice and self-reflection. It also recognises the ‘messiness’ of learning which you’ve mentioned a couple of times and which I agree with, particularly in English.<br />
So, given that this comment is in danger of turning into a dissertation I’ll stop, but if you are interested in the approach to innovation with LIs / SC we took, there are examples of this in action on YT, eg<br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsbFRQDpmgk&#038;feature=BFa&#038;list=PL07B39B937204F782&#038;lf=plpp_video" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsbFRQDpmgk&#038;feature=BFa&#038;list=PL07B39B937204F782&#038;lf=plpp_video</a><br />
or there’s the Progress Records for the kids and vids of me talking it through for parents here: <a href="http://www.cheney.oxon.sch.uk/page/?title=English&#038;pid=24" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.cheney.oxon.sch.uk/page/?title=English&#038;pid=24</a><br />
Alongside this, we took the decision, post-SATS, NOT to use Levels in English classrooms in KS3 – we did record and report to parents 3 times per year, and if kids wanted to know we’d tell them, but apart from that, levels were never referred to. This made me a bit nervous as HOD when OFSTED did come in, but they were full of praise and assessment in English was picked out as a key strength – having said that I think we were lucky to get a reasonably enlightened inspector.<br />
Ps – James I’ve just done some vids on good old PEE+ which you may find useful – available here: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/user/CherwellOnline?ob=0#p/c/C30080DA80562B94/0/N_gYnKh4fFs" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.youtube.com/user/CherwellOnline?ob=0#p/c/C30080DA80562B94/0/N_gYnKh4fFs</a><br />
Would still love to come down and have a proper look at your Media stuff – maybe a visit in the summer?<br />
Cheers<br />
Tom<br />
 </p>
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		<title>
		By: Kevin McLaughlin		</title>
		<link>https://jamesmichie.com/blog/2012/02/on-learning-objectives/#comment-540</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kevin McLaughlin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Feb 2012 22:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jamesmichie.com/blog/?p=18766#comment-540</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I gave up on Learning Objectives about 2 years ago. I had spent almost 9 years teaching in Gran Canaria where writing the LO on the board hadn&#039;t entered the vernacular yet learners continued to learn at varied paces throughout the year. Once I returned to the UK 3 years ago I spent one year at one school which insisted on the written LO on the board. I did so to appease the SMT but questioned its use every chance I got. On every occasion the answer was the same, Ofsted expects it. That told me an awful lot about the state of education in this country today. For some reason schools are not providing an education to enhance learning but one that appeases the rigours of an Ofsted inspection. This is entirely wrong yet it continues to infect teaching and learning today, teachers have become so indoctrinated with writing an LO on the board before a lesson that it makes me cringe.
However, playing this Ofsted learning game doesn&#039;t have to be so restrictive. As you point out in this inspiring post, teachers do have other ways to satisfy SMT/Ofsted yet also give power to the teacher to teach and the learners to learn at their own pace. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I gave up on Learning Objectives about 2 years ago. I had spent almost 9 years teaching in Gran Canaria where writing the LO on the board hadn&#8217;t entered the vernacular yet learners continued to learn at varied paces throughout the year. Once I returned to the UK 3 years ago I spent one year at one school which insisted on the written LO on the board. I did so to appease the SMT but questioned its use every chance I got. On every occasion the answer was the same, Ofsted expects it. That told me an awful lot about the state of education in this country today. For some reason schools are not providing an education to enhance learning but one that appeases the rigours of an Ofsted inspection. This is entirely wrong yet it continues to infect teaching and learning today, teachers have become so indoctrinated with writing an LO on the board before a lesson that it makes me cringe.<br />
However, playing this Ofsted learning game doesn&#8217;t have to be so restrictive. As you point out in this inspiring post, teachers do have other ways to satisfy SMT/Ofsted yet also give power to the teacher to teach and the learners to learn at their own pace. </p>
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		By: Gareth Harris		</title>
		<link>https://jamesmichie.com/blog/2012/02/on-learning-objectives/#comment-539</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gareth Harris]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Feb 2012 20:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jamesmichie.com/blog/?p=18766#comment-539</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Engaging and informative responses. The lesson objective presented in the arrow makes complete sense. Suitable for the students and will perhaps convince the powers that be at my school that there is an alternative to the &#039;all, most, some&#039; approach. Thanks for sharing, adds further weight to my arguments. Thanks. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Engaging and informative responses. The lesson objective presented in the arrow makes complete sense. Suitable for the students and will perhaps convince the powers that be at my school that there is an alternative to the &#8216;all, most, some&#8217; approach. Thanks for sharing, adds further weight to my arguments. Thanks. </p>
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		<title>
		By: Tim Brook		</title>
		<link>https://jamesmichie.com/blog/2012/02/on-learning-objectives/#comment-538</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tim Brook]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Feb 2012 18:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jamesmichie.com/blog/?p=18766#comment-538</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Actually I&#039;ve spent most of the interesting hours of my teaching career getting lost on purpose]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually I&#8217;ve spent most of the interesting hours of my teaching career getting lost on purpose</p>
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